Talk:Nihlus Kryik
uuuuuuummmmmm where did any of this information come from. ralok 00:53, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Second result in a simple google search for Nihlus Kryik.http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/824/824341p1.html The source link does appear to be broken however. --TheWilsonator 03:13, November 3, 2009 (UTC) :It all originally came from the official Mass Effect website. There was a whole bio section on Nihlus. So the reason the link didn't work was b/c the site has been totally redone for ME2. SpartHawg948 10:21, November 3, 2009 (UTC) am i the only one who noticed the similarity between his last name and Captian Kirk? Coincidence i think not. Oh BTW i am not a trekie Ironic Armour Why is the ironic comment being added because it's human armor, when this wiki says it's Serrice Council armor, an asari company?JakePT 09:54, September 6, 2010 (UTC) :I dunno... another admin re-added it, and I'm all for admin solidarity (and was too lazy to confirm the manufacturer!), and for not keeping things that aren't trivia in trivia sections, and whereas an ironic piece of armor is trivia, simply saying "Nihlus wears phantom armor" is not, so I re-added it. SpartHawg948 09:59, September 6, 2010 (UTC) Nihlus/Nihilus Darth Nihilus' name very clearly comes from nihilismhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism, a philosophy that sort of represents what he is. Sith names are derived from some sort of sinister word. Darth Traya--betrayal; Darth Sidious--insidious; Darth Maul...maul. And here's the source.http://blogs.starwars.com/holocron/28 Nihlus has white face paint, and sort of connects him to a man in a white mask? Okay, well, so do other turians. I think trivia needs to be more concrete then "Their name sounds alike and they both have white on their faces." Darth Nihilus and Nihlus share no common traits. If his name was Errikus would you assume he and the Phantom of the Opera are related? Also, Nihilus wasn't done by BioWare. HelterSkelter 15:12, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :The present wording appears ambiguous enough (i.e. may be based on nihilism), but obviously we can't replace it with anything more concrete until there's some kind of proof. Darth Nihilus isn't mentioned in the article, and I don't think he should be, unless it's clearly stated somewhere that the two are somehow linked. As for the Citadel councilor, at the least it's unsubstantiated speculation, although again it's adequately vague. I don't think it's hugely relevant that the two share facial markings, although I suppose that is what 'Trivia' is for. Bronzey 15:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Um that source you state isn't a source. The blog entry says and I quote, "For those thinking about entering the Name the Next Sith contest, here's a list of already existing Darth names accompanied by the real word(s) that the name may have been derived from." (emephsis added). The author is guessing at the name and clearly doesn't know it's fact, so it's speculation, to that is already not a valid source. You want to put words into the mouths of devleopers, which is something I don't like, and you are guessing at what they ment. You don't know what was indended and I think there is enough in this case to justify trivia. And Spart apparetly agrees since he is the one who who modified it ot its present state and it was passed over by both him and Tullis many times for removal. Also Tullis was the one added it in the first place. I'd say three admins saying it's trivia, and considering it was added then modified by another admin, then it's ok. Lancer1289 16:16, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :::I used that source since the author of the article is Leland Chee, an official of LucasArts http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leland_Chee. You're right, it's not a valid source. Regardless in what way are they alike? They have white on their faces and their names sound similar and that is it. I asked before--if his name was Errikus would you think he and the Phantom of the Opera are related? KotOR II wasn't even done by BioWare. The coincidence is merely that--a coincidence. HelterSkelter 16:28, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :::We either permit or deny adding of speculations. I personally think that although it may be true, it isn't a fact and therefore it is a speculation. If we allow a speculation in this instance, why not on others? Perhaps I don't understand this wiki definition of a speculation - and in that case, I would be glad be be proven wrong. --silverstrike 17:27, September 28, 2010 (UTC) The issue here is that you are stating unequivocally that Nihlus' name is for a fact a reference to nihilism and nothing else. " Nihilius has a name was chosen because of nihilism". This cannot be the case without developer confirmation, and you did not provide any. As such, the case can just as easily be made that, due to the similar names and facial markings, a connection, however unlikely it seems to some, can be drawn to Darth Nihilus. Pointing out how Nihilus' name was derived does nothing to change this. SpartHawg948 17:33, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :That is not the crux of my argument. The crux of my argument is that similarity in name and the fact the both have white on their faces is not enough to make them related to each other. I'll ask the question again--if his name was Errikus, would you assume he has some sort of relation to the Phantom of the Opera? If Darth Nihilus and Nihlus shared something other than a similar name and a color on their face, I'd be open to this sort of speculation. But seriously, that's it. Besides that, I already admitted that the source isn't valid. HelterSkelter 17:44, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Were his name Errikus, and someone were to propose a link, I can't say for sure I'd agree with it, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either. I wouldn't assume there was a link, but then again, I don't assume there's a link to Darth Nihilus either. I see literally as much evidence for a link between Nihlus and Darth Nihilus as I do between Nihlus and the philosophy of nihilism. As such, I'm not really prepared to rule out one but not the other. SpartHawg948 18:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :::But then it's just random speculation. I mean, when does it end? I could put any number of outlandish theories on there, and you couldn't refute them so long as I could find tenuous links. Mass Effect is based off of Dune because it occurs in space and there are desert planets. Is that true? No. But if there were other elements of the plot there, an actual viable link between them, like a corrupt a fictional spice that makes the protagonist's desert homeworld invaluable, then you could argue there are similar elements. But just those two things aren't enough. If Nihlus and Nihilus shared a more tangible link besides a similar name and a color on their face, I could definitely see it. But they don't. HelterSkelter 21:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC) And where exactly does it say that they are related? There is a difference between a relation and a reference. BioWare inserts tons of references, and quite a lot of them are not to their own games (especially Obsidian's, for that matter). Prismvg 18:53, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :How are they references to each other? Similar name, and a color on their face. If he had blue facial markings, what would you say? It's far too vague. Trivia is necessary, but I always assume it's like cruft you think is interesting to know. Not baseless speculation. HelterSkelter 21:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, because they're supposed to be so obvious that they slap you in the face. If you don't think it's real, then you're entitled to your opinion. But there are also others who beg to differ. Prismvg 23:18, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::So? That doesn't mean they should be included in the trivia. Unless it is stated by some sort of reliable source that the relation/reference has some kind of basis, we should avoid adding it to the trivia - unless the reference is truly obvious. If we allow ambiguous "references" then we should add to the Shepard page that the character is most likely based on Jesus, and on the asari page that the species are based on the smurfs, and lets not forget the geth - I can point out at least ten movies, books, and other scifi franchise that include hostile AI. --silverstrike 23:31, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::So ambigous. I mean, there are so many Nihluses out there with those facial markings. Especially in BioWare's settings. Look, I didn't add it, and neither do I have a problem with it's removal, if it's deemed such a misleading information. It just rubs me the wrong way when such subtle yet obvious things are put under the microscope. Prismvg 23:52, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::: Their names are different. There are only so many ways you can put syllables together. They're close, but not exactly the same. Nihilus is also wearing a white mask that looks absolutely nothing like Nihlus' facial markings (markings shared by other turians, no less). It's not that they're both white-mask-wearing Nihlus' or Nihilus'. Even the two things that are supposed to be connecting them are only related ambiguously. HelterSkelter 18:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::As cool as I think Darth Nihilus is, I don't think he has anything to do whatsoever with Nihlus Kryik. I think the Trivia in question should probably be removed. Arbington 23:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :::(Edit Conflict) I am not a starwars fan, and never played any of the games that gets mentioned here from time to time, so from my point of view it may or may not be reasonable to assume that Nihlus is based on Nihilus. But regardless of this occurrence, permitting a speculation (unless a source is provided, this statement is a speculation) of any kind in one place grants permission for other speculation to be added throughout the wiki - about a year ago (if I recall correctly) Tullis, SpartHawg948, and other contributors (including myself) deleted a whole bunch of those speculations in many articles (some of the trivia sections on those articles were longer then the article itself due mainly to this issue). --silverstrike 00:07, September 29, 2010 (UTC) So, I kind of posed a question, but didn't phrase it as a question, so I can't be miffed it wasn't answered. The contention I've seen here from the user questioning this is that Nihlus is a name "chosen because of nihilism". What support is there for that contention, if I may ask? To put it another way, how is there more support for that theory, or for the theory that Nihlus is based off the word nihl, that there is not for the theory that it is based off Darth Nihilus? SpartHawg948 04:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :I already pointed out that the crux of my argument does not stem on the source of Nihilus' name. While I believe it is painfully obvious that Darth Nihilus, who hungered to end all life, obliterate everything into nothingness is based, or in reference to, on nihilism, the idea of nothingness, that morality is not real, that the negation of meaning in life, of society, is necessary. I pointed it out as a source of Nihilus' name, because it would support the idea that his name has a particular meaning BioWare wouldn't just randomly place in another character. It wasn't important to my argument, it just supported it. EDIT: Actually, are you talking about the other piece of trivia, the "based of of nihil" part? I didn't add that, nor do I think it's accurate. Where a name like Lilihierax makes sense in having its root in Latin, considering the connection between raptor birds and turians, "nihil" seems a stretch. HelterSkelter 18:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC) Gotcha. I will admit, in hindsight I do appear to have misread your edit summary, and misinterpreted it based on this flawed reading. Be that as it may, there does still, IMO, appear to be enough to support an appropriately worded item making clear that any reference is possible, nothing more. There is certainly plenty of precedent I can cite for this one, but I'll just leave it at this: The names are fairly similar, one letter off, and the markings are also fairly similar. And, contrary to your assertions, the fact that they are not "unique to Nihlus" doesn't really seem to be a factor here. Of course, this is merely my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs. And if the consensus is that the trivia item is a load of you-know-what, I'll happily remove it myself. If, as appears the case, the consensus is for keeping it, that's fine too. SpartHawg948 19:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :This is Nihilushttp://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/kotor-2-sith-lords/darth-nihilus.jpg, this is Nihlushttp://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4942/224596-nihlus_super.jpg. The facial markings don't even look remotely similar to that mask. The only thing is that it is are white. The point I was making about turians sharing that face paint is that the devs didn't make it specifically for him to serve as a reference. This is simply the model they chose. Obviously that's definitive proof, I was simply pointing it out. I mean, Miranda Keyes of Halo has black hair and is involved in a sci-fi video game. Who's to say they aren't references to each other? I could come up with a million of those. But, in the end, it's speculation, nothing more. If a dev comment ever proves me wrong I'll eat crow, but at this point it's too vague. Unless I counted really wrong, (which is easily possible), as of this point the count is 4-3, in favor of removal. Not necessarily because they believe I'm right that the two are completely not related, but because there's just not enough evidence to suggest they're references to each other. HelterSkelter 20:36, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::So it is... well, I never did claim my math skills were that great. Apparently we can add reading comprehension to that list too... :P Hey, whatev. If anyone else wants to chime in, best do it now, as this item appears to be on the chopping block. I figure, just to be on the safe side, we give it a little while more for discussion to percolate, maybe a few hours, then if nothing has changed in that time, it can be removed, and as stated above, if requested, I'll do it myself, and I'll make sure to have a smile on my face while I do it. :) SpartHawg948 20:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::Sure. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is a... surprisingly...calm wiki. I'm fine with giving it another day or so. HelterSkelter 20:55, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::Not on some days, but yes the past few have been calm in comparison, until I posted my blog yesterday. Or were you refering to us being rational? Either way another day can't hurt. Lancer1289 21:01, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::I will admit that, by and large, this wiki is a bit more... level-headed than others. Much less drama. But when there is drama, it can be a sight to behold! SpartHawg948 21:10, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::I doubt I'd have stuck around as a contributor if the wiki was not 'calm' as HelterSkelter put it. Drama is unavoidable from time to time, but for the most part, people here seem pretty mellow. Anyway, throwing my hat in on the 'remove' side of things. The similarity between Nihilus and Nihlus seems largely coincidental to me. -- Dammej (talk) 21:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::I was, indeed, talking about rationality. The discussion page is usually like digging war trenches, in my experience--unless it's a simple matter like providing a source or something. I'm surprised everyone is rather cordial. It's nice, really. But, yeah, I'm sure there are beautiful explosions to behold occasionally. HelterSkelter 21:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Indeed we usually tend to have pleasant conversations on talk pages, however they have sometimes gotten out of hand. However even thoe are rare. It is nice to have conversations where everyone is rational. Lancer1289 21:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I had a guy threaten to kill me once because I disagreed with him. That was certainly a beautiful explosion! :) SpartHawg948 21:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC) Removed it, as promised. And yes, since I said I would, I was smiling while I removed it! SpartHawg948 07:06, September 30, 2010 (UTC) On Illium? I dunno if this is fake, but... there is a Turian that looks a lot like Nihlus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99REE2zovJk&feature=related It's during Samara's Recruitment mission. Disclaimer: Not my video, but yeah... --Jono R 07:57, October 5, 2011 (UTC) :Ok... so? There's a turian that, as you say, looks a lot like Nihlus. I fail to see the relevance to this article. As the Codex states, turian facial markings are worn to indicate what colony the individual wearing them is from. Most likely all we see in this video is a turian from the same colony as Nihlus. Nothing particularly shocking there. SpartHawg948 10:08, October 5, 2011 (UTC) ::Oh not this again. I think this has been brought up about five times already in different places. However, this has already been hit on the head, this isn't trivia and this has no relevance to the article given what has already been said. Lancer1289 12:55, October 5, 2011 (UTC) :: Then mention the same as the councillor, that they appear to be from the same colony. --Jono R 14:45, October 5, 2011 (UTC) :::Mention what exactly? That they are the same as the turian councilor? That also isn't trivia and also has been brought up repeatedly. Things like that are trivial, not trivia. Lancer1289 14:49, October 5, 2011 (UTC) :I remember when I first found this turian which was in January this year and I was thinking of pointing this out (even though I had'nt joined) but I remembered about face paint and how both Nihlus and this turian must have came from the same colany. (If I am honest I thought it was Nihlus and I spent 15 minutes trying to speak to him, thinking Bioware had pulled somthing) LOL User:JediSpectre117 16:30, October 5, 2011 (UTC) Nihlus's Surname and career history I am curious as to how we can establish Nihlus's surname and his career history. I dont see them referenced in the article, and I cant recall anything being mentioned in the books or the games.--RS Kossery 14:01, November 1, 2011 (UTC) :See the comments at the top of the page, and here and here. -- Commdor (Talk) 14:08, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Thanks. I didn't see the top part. Sorry about that--RS Kossery 14:10, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Hey anyone else wish that nihlus was in a DLC, i mean what if cerberus revived nihlus too, i actually have a list of what abilities someone like nihlus would have. 1. Tactical scan. 2. Homing grenades 3 Sentry turret. 4 Marksman Sorry if this is actually a waste of time, i just thought it was an interesting subject. :This page is for discussing Nihlus' article here on the wiki; you should try the Chat, blogs, or the BioWare Social Network. Elseweyr (talk | keskustelu) 23:54, December 9, 2013 (UTC)